2021-11-16 Treasury Task Force
Meeting #1
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T DAO treasury will start with 1 bn tokens
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Four questions to address
- Liquidity needs
- Fei & Ondo
- Vault w/ T tokens and FEI and Ondo
- Tokemak
- Olympus Pro
- Income & Revenues
- Fees from apps
- Fees from LP positions
- Expenses
- Treasury Diversification & Investments
- Stables
- Is USDC acceptable?
- Is DAI preferred?
- DAO should OTC to stables
- How much of our stables should we lend?
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What is our target yield?
- Daily, weekly, quarterly liquidity needs?
- How risk averse is the DAO?
- We should target 2 yrs (24 months) liquidity
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Next steps
- Target integrations with Ribbon & Maple
- Execution is difficult
- Technical considerations, what do we need?
- Treasury controlled by a multi-sig
- Multi-sig can delegate a ‘budget’ to a multi-sig
- We need something like a committee to have some autonomy to avoid front running.
- Start with high level allocations
- What resources are we working with?
- Need to figure out what 2 years of liquidity is.
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Schedule for these calls
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Two open questions
- How do we get value to the T token?
- Buyback and Make article - smart Pool
2 Likes
2021-11-23 Treasury Task Force
Meeting #2
- Technical features required
- A budget mechanism
- Each guild has a multisig and the multsig gets sent a budget
- Fei Ondo could be easy liquidity
- Will takes lead on guild structure and budgeting
- East takes lead on liquidity
- Jake takes lead on governance
- Targets:
- MStable - Long Term Governance?
- Curve + Bribe
- How to bribe w/o getting front run
- Governance guild
- Saddle - Long Term
- How are budgets allocated?
- Monthly allowance
- Quarterly/annual budget
3 Likes
2021-12-07 Treasury Task Force
Meeting #3
- Threshold USD updates (Agoristen and Ben)
- Proposal is making progress with task force
- Liquidity Needs (Eastban)
- Eastban working on Alchemix, KeeperDAO, MStable, Balancer
- Looking for other protocols that uses the buyback and make
- DAO-to-DAO Governance Updates (Jake)
- No updates on that front
- Need to update on MStable, Curve, etc.
- Target assets are ones that: (s/o Will)
- We’re bullish on / like
- Advantageous from a governance perspective
- Farmable (is a major plus)
- Consideration: Token swaps can be dangerous unless they are trusted
- Maple would be a good staking partner to approach
- Let’s start presenting this on a weekly basis if possible
- To talk about at next community call:
- Are we ok with delegating responsibility to a company to exercise an open market acquisition of another project’s governance tokens?
- This will prevent us from being front-run (on an open treasury process), but we can still mitigate risk by allocating a budget.
- Budgeting for Guilds (Will)
- Best way to do budgeting for guilds is streaming budgets with independent multi-sigs
- How to decide funding size:
- Community driven decision
- How to distribute tasks for the various guilds?
- Suggestion: For marketing guild specifically:
- Monthly meetings to decide tasks for the month
- Do a bankless dao bounty system
- Thoughts on this proposal:
- East: Agreed
- Could also add a “tipping pot”
- Jake: Agreed
- Could be helpful for thUSD
- Will setting up call with coordinape
- What would it take to set up a bounty board? (Will)
- Naxsun has started figuring this with Bankless
- Should each guild manage their own?
- Let’s start out with the marketing guild
- Open question: is there KYC required?
- Jake: Long term I think we want one board for all guilds, but to start we want to have a relatively small test (e.g. marketing).
- This could potentially fall under the treasury responsibilities
- Board is an opportunity for anyone to get involved - Will & Ms. Nu want to be a part of this or take lead
- What returns should we be targeting? (Jake)
- The inflation rate is 10%, this should serve as a standard annual hurdle rate.
- The more pressing issues are liquidity and incentives (bribes, etc.)
- Once we have that figured out we can focus more long term on yields and investments.
- Lead on Olympus Pro - Billiboi
- Jake to introduce Ondo contact to Eastban
3 Likes
2021-12-14 Treasury Task Force
Meeting #4
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Olympus Pro
- Form is ready, just needs final discussion to hit remaining points
- Open Question: What AMMs have they done bonding on? Is Curve an option?
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CRV
- They do have volatile pairs (that’s an update of v2)
- Does it make sense to concentrate our liquidity pairs on Curve?
- What should our pairs start out as?
- T-ETH pool
- Roll out tUSD when ready
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Olympus
- Start with bonding for T-ETH
- Then expand to stable pairs
- 3% fee from Olympus DAO
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CRV + Convex Open Questions
- How much sense does it make to own CRV or CVX in the treasury vs using the bribe? Rent vs own
- Maybe modeling out same buying power
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Check-in on Threshold USD
- Still in brainstorming mode
- Discussion about interest rate
- Liquity pays issuance fee not interest
- Ongoing interest rate continues to generate value
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Follow up on Reflexer (RAI)
- Adding another token might be a non-starter
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Summary
- Will on budget
- East on research + liquidity
- Jake on Curve econ
- Billi on O-Bonds
- Agoristen + Ben on Threshold USD
- Need lead on Buyback & Make (Balancer)
6 Likes
2021-12-21 Treasury Task Force
Meeting #5
- Olympus Updates
- Follow up on questions
- What is the flexibility of terms on O-Bonds?
- Size of bond
- Bond vesting term
- Bond control variable
- Can Curve pools be incentivized?
- Initial review reveals not just Uniswap/Sushi pools.
- There are Convex, Visor, etc.
- One of the inputs you give is the target address
- Should we do this ourselves?
- Pros of Olympus Pro
- Visibility
- Liquidity
- Management
- Cons of Olympus Pro
- Can’t issue custom condition (i.e. require staking)
- Fees
- Reputation of the issuer
- We can (should) do both.
- Updates on Governance Purchasing
- Curve vs. Convex
- Convex is the clear winner here. We can do this in the short term
- Alchemix & Other Large Holders
- Explore OTC for better purchasing power
- Tokemak
- Explore long term when data comes out
- Badger
- New KPI
- Efficiency; $1 in bribes = $X in liquidity
- Buy-back-and-make
- MStable implementations shared
- See docs shared by Eastban
1 Like
2022-01-04 Treasury Task Force
Meeting #6
- LP for T
- Maclane
- TETH pair on Curve
- Interest in moving Keep rewards over to a T pool to:
- LP on T Uniswap Pool
- TETH on Curve
- Steps to move forward:
- V2 Pools need to be manually deployed
- Waiting on this from CRV
- Plan ahead to do votium or bribe
- Bribe.crv or votium
- Might get a lot of new users / different demographics here
- Michael thinks it is more efficient to bribe
- Votium is better for quick boosts
- Crv.bribe is better for mid term incentivization
- Buying CVX is best for long term
- Need ETH to LP for CRV
- Will
- Need tech support for migrating rewards but it’s possible
- East
- Alchemix is buying LP tokens, ETH tokens and CVX tokens with their bonds
- Want some rewards system/incentives to direct rewards from bond program to prevent selling
- Coverage pool is one place
- Simple proposal to to take the KEEP-ETH rewards and direct it to votium
- Will: Want to consider a phasing approach so we don’t surprise anyone with that
- Ramuro
- It’s very synergistic to have the bribes directed to the pool you’re LPing
- Jake
- We need a one sided pool to address the concerns voiced by East about providing a yield to prevent dumping
- Tokemak could be a good solution for this
- DAO Structure & Ops
- Will will have will have budget spreadsheet setup next week
- Ben on MStable Treasury Swap
- Market cap is relatively small so our voting power would be high.
- MStable is a good place for tBTC as well
- Open Questions
- Terms enforcement:
- Looking into mStable 12-mo binding
- Is this technically possible with T-tokens?
- Next Steps
- Reach out to Olympus
- Reach out to Tokemak
- Follow up on enforcing MStable terms
- Want people to be able to stake T but not transfer
- Set up a task force for this
- Inflation
2 Likes
2022-01-11 Treasury Task Force
Meeting #7
- Paladin (via Figue)
- Curve Powers
- Proposal Power
- Gauge Weight Power
- Boost Power
- Paladin’s focus on boost
- Raising minimum APY and Maximum APY someone can farm with
- Paladin’s focus is on Boost
- On a big pool, you’ll be able to farm 15-45%
- Platform allows you to chose how much you want to sell/buy veCRV
- Right now it’s a UTC interface
- Convex keeps the boost to themselves, Paladin builds on top of that feature, which enables people to maximize their farming
- About bribing
- You will never get a constant rate as the bids change every week for bribing on the curve gauge.
- Need a budget of > $75k / week
- 5% costs $260k / week
- MBMDP
- Numbers to decide on:
- Manager Pay
- 200k T / year to committee or council per year
- Integrations Guild
- 4 people
- Monthly budget of 50k T
- Treasury Management Task Force
- 6 people
- Monthly budget of 0 T
- Annual budget of 10m T
- Marketing Guild
- 4 people
- Monthly budget of 150k T
- Council Grants
- Dev Grant Guild
- No monthly budget
- 6m T for year for:
- Threshold USD & Threshold PFK
- People’s Guild (HR)
- ~2.5% of DAO treasury for Y1
2022-01-18 Treasury Task Force
Meeting #8
- DAO Loan
- Status
- Next Steps
- Need to put up a bribe to start earning those rewards
- Bribing
- Minimum of $50k
- Max $6.5m
- How much to spend?
- Two approaches to consider
- Small bribe, feel out the market
- Large bribe, advertise for the market
- Preference towards this
- If it’s very effective, it’s very effective, if not the DAO will get it
- Bribing is periods of two weeks
- We should ask Viscante what the social reaction
- Do we reallocate the 170k~ keep rewards?
- Decided to spend $300k
- Expecting $600k in return
- $400k of that to go back to the dao
- To bribe early or late?
- If we’re going for marketing, we should do early
- Is T whitelisted on votium?
- Budget - bull vs bear spend strategies
- Guild funding / grant responsibilities
1 Like
2022-01-11 Treasury Task Force
Meeting #9
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mStable (Theo Clochard)
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this will be the first treasury swap for Threshold, so good learning experience on going through this
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everything that was in the document (shared in the mStable channel) is a good starting position to do the swap
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something mStable DAO was working on with their treasury that they wanted to share (Theo Clochard | mStable)
- DAO treasuries historically really exposed to their own native tokens
- Realizing the value accrued in the treasury, why not position themselves for the long run
- Starting from this idea, how can you provide a link between current position and future diversification?
- Current process requires multisig, and this unfortunately creates a lot of friction
- What is the solution?
- He analyzed a # of DAOs
- Track each stable performance and report it back to Treasury
- He doesn’t know what the stablecoin Threshold DAO currently uses
- Creating liquidity within a Stable Safe so they can create a rewards that is consistent with the annual burn of the mStable coin
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Currently the Threshold Treasury is just T, and the goal is to be a mix of coins
- Wants Stablecoins to be a good percentage of diversification
- The goal of stable coins, per Theo, is to provide funding for the annual expenses (?)
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Important question: while stablecoins are important, what are some other aspects of stablecoins can we take advantage of?
- There are DAOs want to be risk averse (fund the treasury using stablecoin)
- There are other DAOs that want to take risk and produce the highest returns for DAO
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Q: How does Maclane / Theo think about how to fund Treasury during times like this in the market?
- Billiboi noted we should have at least 12-24 months of stables (mentioned in the first treasury call)
- While you can become aggressive during market selldowns
- Maclane personal preference – given NuCo and KeepCo are well capitalized – wait for v2 launch of tBTC and if mkt doesn’t fall, then maybe diversifying into stables
- He has a bias towards taking a bet towards Threshold
- Mainly driven by Nucypher and Keep Network being well capitalized
- MAKERDAO (example) – the liquidity engine crashed
- They had to pay $5mn in liquidation cost
- They had no stables to fund this
- They had to sell their native token, which crashed native coin by 40%
- Right now they have 20% of their treasury in stables
- Maker/Yearn/Balancer – they own ~5-20% of treasury in stablecoins
- Usually 30% is usdc / cash
- Liquidity position in CVX
- Passive income protocols like mSTABLE
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Q: Can you share (Theo) the buyback program you have been implementing at mSTABLE?
- This he doesn’t have much info
- It’s on the more technical aspect
- SAFEAY (?) – this is how they generate yield on stables
- The goal is to maintain
- The way to think about it:
- Yearly burn rate
- Figure out what return
- Take 10-20% in very safe assets
- Take another 20% or other portion of the treasury to deploy to other strategies
Q: with mSTABLE – how do you diversify currently?
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Q: How do you determine governance for Treasury
- The UI is terrible right now
- It’s slow – so they want to make it a streamlined process:
- First step is to initiate the transaction
- They won’t create an extra step to prevent this from happening
- Start from moment you want to do the deposit
- Current process is a mess, 10 steps to get the $ funded/traded
- At mSTABLE: they have a subDAO
- Asset management DAO (2 signers there)
- This is still governed by Treasury DAO
- mSTABLE would be seamless integration between Treasury DAO
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Q: What do you imagine for the token swap that we have been discussing? What are next steps?
- On the DAO swap, mSTABLe needs to refresh their emission control (what is the cost of 1% of the reward, and Threshold will need to share what their target)
- Today Threshold is getting 0.5-1% of the rewards
- Theo can write the proposal/summary of this and put it in the Discord Chat
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Votium Status
- CVX – how do we harvest rewards?
- What is the governance process in the short term to harvest and use this
- Billiboiadams:
- Had a good call with Olympus DAO yesterday
- They can help us launch a bond program as early as next week
- Had examples of written proposals
- Minimal tech lift – Threshold gives some addresses via intake form
- What we need to figure out as a group: When do we want to launch this program?
- We should define: WHEN and HOW MUCH to bond with the program with Olympus
- How much T do we want to purchase TETH liquidity via bonding program?
- The way it works: T would start off with a smaller pilot bond program
- From here, over a few weeks, sync up with Olympus on analytics for all the bond programs, tweak iteratively on what the best discount to use is, how long the lock up should be
- On the amount – T thinking put out $500K emissions (USD). Olympus DAO is okay with anything above $250K USD.
- They’re really looking for > $1mn USD liquidity w.r.t. pool depth
- Monthly volumes of > $250K USD minimum
- Billiboiadams think teth pool should already qualify
- One thing Olympus DAO recommended (not good) – they don’t like vesting periods beyond 7 days
- In their experience, the demand for the underlying bond declines pretty sharply with any lockup beyond 7 days
- Olympus recommending, however only 5-7 days bonding
- Maclane’s notes:
- They recommend pilot program (1mth long) – allocating 5-7 day vesting period starting with $250K USD
- Avg discount across all bond programs is ~8%. Healthy bond programs usually don’t go > 7% discount
- The successful bonding programs they’ve done generally have pretty strong marketing push from the protocol’s marketing team
- There is a 3.3% fee to Olympus
- V2 contract going live in March – the migration is very simple – going from v1 contract run down to 0 and then migrating over to v2
- If Threshold started a pilot, it would be on the current v1, run it for a month for $250K, analyze the trading data, and then when contracts upgrade to v2, Threshold can choose to move forward from there
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Q: What is an example of non-successful bonding program?
- Didn’t ask for an example
- In general, however, if your variables aren’t set properly (we should be able to tweak after watching for 30 days): i.e. if ROI for bond is negative, demand will be 0
- If we manage to sell all the T against T/ETH liquidity pools, that would be successful, but we need to decide what discount to use initially
- From our side (Threshold) – did we want to wait for the Threshold dashboard and staking rewards
- Right now still on schedule for 1/31 for staking contracts. This should incentivize for folks who supply liquidity to T or buy T to stick around after the bonding program ends
- T coverage pools – these are a bit further out
- T staking to run a node should be available immediately
- The threshold dashboard should be ready as well ~1/31
- T coverage pool is slated for ~2Q right now (April)
- Options for T:
- Staking/node
- Coverage pool
- Tokemak
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Q: the v2 products – should be essentially a white label service that Olympus Pro provides: i.e. have a bond program on our dashboard that people can use
- It’s unclear as to whether we can have a program run by Olympus for us and on their “bond market place”
- W.r.t. on bonding pilot program – risk of a $250K getting dumped is small, so a small trial pilot program should be okay. Maclane is supportive of doing this ASAP
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Q: Assuming pilot for Olympus goes well, when would the next program be? What size would we think about for a larger program?
- We would need to connect with Olympus Pro guys after 30 days and walk away with some takeaways that can inform their decision: expand program or scrap it
- We can try to get creative – use bonding program to go after single assets (CVX) or expand into other liquidity pools
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On governance for TTF – we should defer to governance:
- His proposal is to lower the multisig on the council
- We should discuss this on Thursday
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Bribe CRV (maclane)
- We did $3.5mn T deposit into Votium this past Weekend
- This was an incentive for CVX takers to signal for the T-ETH gauge
- Bribe.CRV.finance – similar to Votium:
- This targets veCRV directly rather than through CVX
- Votium is the voting mechanism for CVX – the competition on Votium seems to be more intense vs. veCRV
- The ROI the last few cycles have been more attractive for bribe.crv.finance than Votium actually
- With bribe.crv.finance – it can be stickier bc there are multiple onchain trxns to change or edit your votes
- With bribe.crv.finance – it’s an onchain trxn so it will persist until changed. CVX Votium changes every 2weeks
- Currently the Votium / T-ETH is friendly towards threshold DAO: if we get a big chunk of these T incentives/bribes – we can roll them into the next round
- Couch/East/Will is supportive of this
- The voting period ended yesterday. CVX signal
- We have discussion with KEEPER DAO later today – they have voting power on CVX and the discussion will be interesting (5pm ET).
This is from the Votium Discord – it’s a table of the pool, how much incentives were deposit (rewards), votes were the # of votes weight, and the spend to get each of those votes ($/vote)
Summary:
- We approve Olympus
- We approve moving forward with mSTABLE on token swap
- Will talk about governance on next call
- Will talk about harvesting next call
- KEEPER DAO convo @ 5pm
- DebtDAO – guest on integrations call
4 Likes
2022-01- 27 Treasury Task Force
Meeting # 10
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Harvesting rewards
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There was a question about what the frequency was going to be
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There was ~$40K of CRV/CVX in the protocol liquidity – is this enough to warrant starting this process? Probably?
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It depends on what we want to do – if we want to do everything thru CVX (1 trxn to claim), then wrap the CRV into cvxCRV, and then stake everything
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What do we do with the rewards that are for the lender? East thinks we should give the 50% of the rewards to the lender, and let the lender take care of his rewards (3,075 ETH lender – we should give them 50% of the rewards immediately)
- Do we put the rewards inside the flywheel or give it back to lender?
- The easiest accounting way is to give the lender
- How would the lender want to vote with their rewards? Likely TETH?
- There could be scenarios where people want to vote for other pools (there could be an incentive for voting for another pool)
- Maclane should connect with the lender and get a sense of how they want to handle 50% of their rewards and what their intention was for staking CVX/CRV/LP rewards
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Olympus DAO Pro bonding proposal (per Ben’s draft)
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Do we want to post the proposal today and then wait a few days before holding a snapshot? Yes, we believe this is the plan: the intention is to have the snapshot tomorrow and then have a short waiting period
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Matt is OOO, so for the time being assume the threshold.eth ENS and do it through that
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Someone can just buy the ETH, transfer it into the ENS and then get reimbursed later
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Re: OTC: there’s ~$1.5-2mn (ETH) to purchase
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We may need to get front end devs to include Keep tab built/included
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The terms offered will be same as Olympus (7-8%) and staking for 7-day period.
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A few transactions in the next few weeks for the Treasury:
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The incentives for CRV
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The wrapping of Keep to T
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Voting for the Snapshot – who would be able to vote?
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Should be staked Keep
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Should be staked Nu
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Treasury shouldn’t vote with their nu/keep
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Will need to receive ENS from Matt, set it up (multisig transaction) and do the Snapshot on Monday
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Governance Pending for Treasury
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This was discussed per the snapshot proposal – we will follow this model and we should be fine
Current To do actions right now
- Feedback on Olympus DAO Pro proposal
- Cue up CVX/CRV incentive transactions
- Getting feedback from v2 with Rusty (Will/Ben/Rusty) next week
- Internally at Keep, most people understand the plan and supporting v2
- Spend in 1Q22 is not too high – so we can get the 1Q budget numbers
- Put together a proposal for feedback process on the budget and vote on it
1 Like
February 10, 2022
Meeting #12
- Curve pool is often becoming unbalanced
- We could set a threshold to rebalance it
- Issues with execution
- Could delegate to an EOA
- Another multisig with same council members
- 2/9 execution
- Opportunity could diminish when Binance listing occurs
- Need to write a proposal and get funded
- Gating access to treasury guild
- Create a new role
- Have a separate gated channel
- Want to keep most conversations public
- How should treasury guild operate?
- Initiate transactions and propose to council multisig
- Treasury guild responsible to token holders
- Popcorn DAO
- Only available for token participants
- Yield optimizer and staking platform
- Stake stablecoins and earn yield
- Extract a percentage of the fees and direct to the popcorn holders
- Partnered with Olympus, Bankless, Klima DAO
- DAO Treasury Management tool
- Multichain, polychain, ethereum
- Pop staking
- Could do a stable OTC deal, will look into it
- Would be interested in a swap, will provide info
- Jake to talk to Maclane about OTC with funds
- Lending to Byte Trading
- Terms would be negotiable
- Risk: Lack of legal proxy
- Similar to Maple Finance
- KeeperDAO proposal pretty much finished, Jake to check with Billi
- Should we do the T deposit in CRV pools and the olympus pilot?
- T opportunities are harder to predict but possible
- OTC could make more sense than olympus because we avoid the fee from olympus
- Single-side deposit to curve will have very little slippage
- Need to put into a budget proposal to receive the dao mandate, should include:
- Max spend: $10m
- Max slippage: 8-10%
- Timeframe: End of March
2 Likes
- ETH Loan
- Should we payback the loan?
- Pros
- reduces the risk of IL
- Increases share of rewards for the treasury
- Cons
- Reduces liquidity we could direct elsewhere
- How?
- Systematic or opportunistic?
- e.g. take advantage of a pump
- 5m T transactions, ~7% above the loan
[information redacted - contact ben or jake for details]
- Jake has a dao treasury consultant attending the TG call next week
- KeeperDAO proposal approved and sent
